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	<title>Comments on: Domestic Dirt</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.scarlatti.de/?feed=rss2&#038;p=328" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328</link>
	<description>[bracketing the big topics]</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: hmeiser</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10456</link>
		<dc:creator>hmeiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 14:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10456</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;On this one, I don't get the point, Mr. Lorenz-Meyer. No doubt, the Spiegel, and particularly Spiegel Online is inflammatory sometimes. No doubt, emotions are high on this matter and the SpOn may actually push an Agenda. But in the cited article it raises a valid point: What does it say about our western democracies, if we accept any representatives of an obvious dictatorship as security officers on our turf? You may critizise the language (thugs etc) and the insinnuations of violence (which, at least in mild form, is documented). But the point remains: We, as open and democratic societies, must not accept representatives from totalitarian regimes as security officers, regardless what they do. People like that don’t belong on our streets, indeed.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On this one, I don&#8217;t get the point, Mr. Lorenz-Meyer. No doubt, the Spiegel, and particularly Spiegel Online is inflammatory sometimes. No doubt, emotions are high on this matter and the SpOn may actually push an Agenda. But in the cited article it raises a valid point: What does it say about our western democracies, if we accept any representatives of an obvious dictatorship as security officers on our turf? You may critizise the language (thugs etc) and the insinnuations of violence (which, at least in mild form, is documented). But the point remains: We, as open and democratic societies, must not accept representatives from totalitarian regimes as security officers, regardless what they do. People like that don’t belong on our streets, indeed.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Meta</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10380</link>
		<dc:creator>Meta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10380</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well spoken, Mr. Lorenz Meyer.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well spoken, Mr. Lorenz Meyer.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: SpiegelKritik &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Lesebeute: SPIEGEL schasst Geschäftsführer</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10344</link>
		<dc:creator>SpiegelKritik &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Lesebeute: SPIEGEL schasst Geschäftsführer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10344</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Der Darmst&#228;dter Journalistik-Professor und ehemalige SpOn-Redakteur Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer sieht in der China-Berichterstattung des Spiegels Kampagnen-Journalismus. [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Der Darmst&#228;dter Journalistik-Professor und ehemalige SpOn-Redakteur Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer sieht in der China-Berichterstattung des Spiegels Kampagnen-Journalismus. [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10217</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10217</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Amban: Well, that's pretty trivial, isn't it? Interesting are the cases where you can't resort to that type of explanation. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Look, I care a lot for China, I love the country, its people and their culture, and I wish the Chinese all the best on their way to an open society. But I'm not a big fan of us westerners patronizing them from some kind of know-it-all attitude, especially when we've got problems even to discern the family and given names of the Chinese that we talk and write about.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here, in my blog posting above, I'm more concerned with the state of our domestic media. We have the privilege to live in a democracy with a free press. It's not only a privilege, it's also a competitive advantage. We should make responsible use of that.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Amban: Well, that&#8217;s pretty trivial, isn&#8217;t it? Interesting are the cases where you can&#8217;t resort to that type of explanation. </p>

<p>Look, I care a lot for China, I love the country, its people and their culture, and I wish the Chinese all the best on their way to an open society. But I&#8217;m not a big fan of us westerners patronizing them from some kind of know-it-all attitude, especially when we&#8217;ve got problems even to discern the family and given names of the Chinese that we talk and write about.</p>

<p>Here, in my blog posting above, I&#8217;m more concerned with the state of our domestic media. We have the privilege to live in a democracy with a free press. It&#8217;s not only a privilege, it&#8217;s also a competitive advantage. We should make responsible use of that.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Amban</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10216</link>
		<dc:creator>Amban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10216</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;But the fact that China still has a serious human rights problem in many areas is no excuse for bad and biased journalism.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sure. But it is a good explanation of bad and biased journalism.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But the fact that China still has a serious human rights problem in many areas is no excuse for bad and biased journalism.</i></p>

<p>Sure. But it is a good explanation of bad and biased journalism.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10215</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10215</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Jing, for this wonderful link. :-)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jing, for this wonderful link. <img src='http://www.scarlatti.de/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jing</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10214</link>
		<dc:creator>Jing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10214</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not biased reporting? Are you out of your blarmey effing mind?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/4963/&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From the tenor of the reporting coming from the bleating press, it sounds like the men in blue are beating protestors to death on the streets. All they are, is a foreign police security detail, which is actually routine even for sports events.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The entire issue is just retarded. China could be handing out candies to cute little babies and the headlines would read "Inscrutible Chicoms give candy to babies. Insidious plot to give children gum disease, cavities, gingivitis says activists!"&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not biased reporting? Are you out of your blarmey effing mind?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/4963/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/4963/'>http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/4963/</a></p>

<p>From the tenor of the reporting coming from the bleating press, it sounds like the men in blue are beating protestors to death on the streets. All they are, is a foreign police security detail, which is actually routine even for sports events.</p>

<p>The entire issue is just retarded. China could be handing out candies to cute little babies and the headlines would read &#8220;Inscrutible Chicoms give candy to babies. Insidious plot to give children gum disease, cavities, gingivitis says activists!&#8221;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: another mick</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10213</link>
		<dc:creator>another mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10213</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don't think it's biased reporting to report the actual words of Olympic torch runners like Konnie Huq and Olympic chief Seb Coe. They are not being taken out of context, they are reporting very real concerns by pro-Olympic figures, not anti-Olympic demonstrators. Such a group might be excused if they were guarding a head of state from a potential attacker - but  a torch! They have no place. It is overkill, and also very bad for China's image and reputation.  And now there are reports that these guards are taking lots of pictures of demonstrators. You can imagine how these surveillance pictures will be used - same tactics as the Metropolitan Police etc, except used against dissidents families, protestors etc. No, this praetorian guard for a newly concocted Torch Run have no place on foreign soil.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s biased reporting to report the actual words of Olympic torch runners like Konnie Huq and Olympic chief Seb Coe. They are not being taken out of context, they are reporting very real concerns by pro-Olympic figures, not anti-Olympic demonstrators. Such a group might be excused if they were guarding a head of state from a potential attacker - but  a torch! They have no place. It is overkill, and also very bad for China&#8217;s image and reputation.  And now there are reports that these guards are taking lots of pictures of demonstrators. You can imagine how these surveillance pictures will be used - same tactics as the Metropolitan Police etc, except used against dissidents families, protestors etc. No, this praetorian guard for a newly concocted Torch Run have no place on foreign soil.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10212</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorenz Lorenz-Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10212</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@mike: I don't quite get your point. Do you want to say that because China uses censorship and doesn't give a shit about outside opinion, Spon has got a right to do the same? And how exactly is a blackened CNN TV screen in Beijing and some person in Virginia related to our topic?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@another mick: Of course it could be a matter of dispute whether or under which conditions it is prudent to allow foreign security forces into your country. But if it is not okay in this case, it's the local government which is to blame. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If on the other hand you instead focus on the security guards  and portrait them as robots and brutes, even though they were just trying to secure the torch relay procedure in an extremely hostile environment (would you really have sent volunteers into such a situation?), and while actually all the really tough response to the protesters' actions has been done by local european police force and not by them, your journalistic intention might quite legitimately be questioned. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(BTW, are European policemen not trained to kill "if necessary"? I wouldn't feel particularly secure were they not. Does Spon mention this of the British and French policemen? Why not?)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, it's mostly the focus and style of the report and it's context of smear journalism (like just now again, when the word "perfidious" makes it into an editorial teaser about China)  that is the target of my criticism. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Believe me, I have no sympathy for police state methods (or censorship, for that matter). But the fact that China still has a serious human rights problem in many areas is no excuse for bad and biased journalism. &lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mike: I don&#8217;t quite get your point. Do you want to say that because China uses censorship and doesn&#8217;t give a shit about outside opinion, Spon has got a right to do the same? And how exactly is a blackened CNN TV screen in Beijing and some person in Virginia related to our topic?</p>

<p>@another mick: Of course it could be a matter of dispute whether or under which conditions it is prudent to allow foreign security forces into your country. But if it is not okay in this case, it&#8217;s the local government which is to blame. </p>

<p>If on the other hand you instead focus on the security guards  and portrait them as robots and brutes, even though they were just trying to secure the torch relay procedure in an extremely hostile environment (would you really have sent volunteers into such a situation?), and while actually all the really tough response to the protesters&#8217; actions has been done by local european police force and not by them, your journalistic intention might quite legitimately be questioned. </p>

<p>(BTW, are European policemen not trained to kill &#8220;if necessary&#8221;? I wouldn&#8217;t feel particularly secure were they not. Does Spon mention this of the British and French policemen? Why not?)</p>

<p>So, it&#8217;s mostly the focus and style of the report and it&#8217;s context of smear journalism (like just now again, when the word &#8220;perfidious&#8221; makes it into an editorial teaser about China)  that is the target of my criticism. </p>

<p>Believe me, I have no sympathy for police state methods (or censorship, for that matter). But the fact that China still has a serious human rights problem in many areas is no excuse for bad and biased journalism. </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: another mick</title>
		<link>http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328&#038;cpage=1#comment-10210</link>
		<dc:creator>another mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.scarlatti.de/?p=328#comment-10210</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some of the Spiegel reporting sounds like the worst kind of foreigner baiting. but on this I have to agree with them. They are right to conclude that those "smurfs" had no place on the streets of Germany, nor for Paris, London or Istanbul. Their presence is wrong for so many reasons. Firstly for sovereignity. I'm sure China would refuse to allow a pumped-up gang of American military-style security guards form an inner guard around an Olympic Torch run through Beijing. Secondly, the smurfs acted in a very hostile manner to local police and even to the runners - "thugs" was the word used by British Olympic chief Lord Coe. And finally the Chinese guard negates the supposed Olympic spirit of the torch run. If they wanted a torch escort why not send a mixed team of real athletes and genuine volunteers with the emphasis on Olympic spirit insteead of Chinese patriotism.
Thank goodness our Australian PM has refused to have them accompny the torch in Canberra.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the Spiegel reporting sounds like the worst kind of foreigner baiting. but on this I have to agree with them. They are right to conclude that those &#8220;smurfs&#8221; had no place on the streets of Germany, nor for Paris, London or Istanbul. Their presence is wrong for so many reasons. Firstly for sovereignity. I&#8217;m sure China would refuse to allow a pumped-up gang of American military-style security guards form an inner guard around an Olympic Torch run through Beijing. Secondly, the smurfs acted in a very hostile manner to local police and even to the runners - &#8220;thugs&#8221; was the word used by British Olympic chief Lord Coe. And finally the Chinese guard negates the supposed Olympic spirit of the torch run. If they wanted a torch escort why not send a mixed team of real athletes and genuine volunteers with the emphasis on Olympic spirit insteead of Chinese patriotism.
Thank goodness our Australian PM has refused to have them accompny the torch in Canberra.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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